phamos | (no subject)

The charge was contempt of court -- and I would agree, he's pretty damn contemptuous. And contemptible.

Personally, I do think Mr. Francis is a primo sleaze. However, he wouldn't be the multi-millionaire that he is without all the willing young women getting their kit off for his cameras.* I read Ariel Levy's Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture (http://www.amazon.com/Female-Chauvinist-Pigs-Raunch-Culture/dp/0743284283/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6094255-0713508?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177439575&sr=8-1) earlier this year. She interviews employees of Girls Gone Wild and the women who get naked for the cameras. Levy's book mainly discusses how a lot of teen/early20s females feel that being porn-esque is the height of feminism. it's very disturbing. also, the main thing girls get in return for working it for Mr. Francis' cameras is a t-shirt. a t-shirt

i'm pretty sure that if I'd been approached by a GGW type entity in my college days (no matter how drunk i may have been) that i wouldn't have gotten naked and freaky with unknown females for the camera. Mr. Francis is a sleazebucket but what does it say about today's young women that they are so quick and willing to degrade themselves (and possibly even imperil future career possibilities) for his cameras and the offer of a free t-shirt?

I'd written out a whole response, but then I went to look for a story I read about Joe Francis in the LA Times and a big stupid banner ad froze my Firefox and I had to force quit. So now I hate Joe Francis even more. :)

what does it say about today's young women that they are so quick and willing to degrade themselves (and possibly even imperil future career possibilities) for his cameras and the offer of a free t-shirt?

I think the question should also be, what is it about our society today that gives young women the idea that sexual promiscuity is equivalent to feminist empowerment? That concept was definitely around when I was in high school 10,12 years ago (and I bought into it to a large degree), but it seems to have become so much more pronounced! (I wore baby tees when I was 14/15 years old, but they didn't say, like "cum dumpster" on them, or whatever else girls are wearing today.) It makes me afraid to have female children, in a way, because I can only imagine what it's going to be like in ANOTHER 15 years.

I agree that women need to take responsibility for their actions, even while drunk. God knows I've done stupid shit while drunk and regretted it. (And drunk plus manic? Jesus Christ!) But that doesn't make Joe Francis, or guys like him, any less scuzzy for taking advantage of a girl's idiocy and low self-esteem. (Not to mention the fact that Joe Francis has actually been accused of drugging and raping girls, which is where my more visceral dislike for him comes into play.)

(I wore baby tees when I was 14/15 years old, but they didn't say, like "cum dumpster" on them, or whatever else girls are wearing today.) It makes me afraid to have female children, in a way, because I can only imagine what it's going to be like in ANOTHER 15 years.

i'll make sure your daughter is the first one on the block to have a "cum guzzling slut" onesie. ;)

Thanks. Segev will appreciate that. Just don't buy a Che Guevara onesie -- he ranted about that for ages after he saw it.

You know, I think the thing that bugs me the most is that they just get a t-shirt... But I get it. It's instant fame and notoriety, the social currency of the day. It's like, so awesome and I will totally rock it on MySpace, bitch...

Sad as there are plenty of opportunities to flash your boobs and get naked for good money. And heck, you can do it and not on video too. Or gets lots more for a video. And so on.

Of course, it annoys me that girls will make out for a t-shirt, but I can't get a date. Hard to keep both thoughts in the same head.

And I think alot of young women just don't see it as degrading. So, I showed my tits and made out with my friend on camera. It seemed cool at the time, and damn, I look hot. Oh well. And I think the case that it is degrading isn't as clear cut as some might see to be.

This is the MySpace generation. Privacy means nothing. Why not advertise every thought, idea, picture, etc. to anybody that cares?

But I'm a dude with a CS degree, so hell if I know what it all means. And yea, Mr. Francis is a grade A sleazebag, but I doesn't mean I'm not gobsmacked at the money he's made at it. Especially when I still don't have a new @#$@#$% job.

You know, I think the thing that bugs me the most is that they just get a t-shirt.

Actually sometimes they don't get a t-shirt, they get a trucker hat. I think that's worse.

Yea, that is worse.

I think the question should also be, what is it about our society today that gives young women the idea that sexual promiscuity is equivalent to feminist empowerment?

this is the question that Levy addresses in her book. i really think you'd enjoy reading the Levy book. i'd be happy to send it to you to let you borrow it. do you want it?

personally, i refer to this whole "being like a porn star is empowering and feminist" as the "ParisHiltonizing" of our culture.

It makes me afraid to have female children, in a way, because I can only imagine what it's going to be like in ANOTHER 15 years.

yeah. Tom and I have been discussing lately whether or not to have a second child. he really wants one and i flip-flop on the subject a lot. mainly, i am TERRIFIED of having a female child. aside from the societal problems that beset females, i worry quite a lot about how my own body issues would affect her. i think i can be a much better parent to a son than to a daughter.

I actually might just buy the Ariel Levy book. You can get it on Amazon for $10.50, and that's about what it would cost for you to ship it to me and me to ship it back. :) Looking at the reviews of the book on Amazon, I'm realizing that I actually read the New York Magazine article that was her jumping-off point for the book. It was about this phenomenon in New York called CAKE parties, which is a "sex-positive" way for twenty-something women to dance naked with men ogling them. I'm still not clear on how that's "empowering" while stripping is "degrading" (or, really, how it's different from any other club in the city). Maybe reading the book will refresh my memories.

As far as having a daughter, I have these horrible visions of myself shrieking like a banshee, "You are NOT leaving the house in THAT, young LADY!" and being a big fat hypocrite. I think it's the updated version of what people of my parents' generation had to figure out with regards to telling their kids about smoking pot. What do I tell my daughter about dressing suggestively when I did it myself? I mean, not to the extent that many girls do. But, you know, I wore cropped tops and belly chains and miniskirts. Usually not all at the same time, though -- I managed to look decent, I think. And when the first Delia's catalog came out and I bought a bunch of stuff from it, my mom made me send the miniskirts back. Heh. I just am not sure how I'll handle that situation -- and how Segev and I will deal with that situation together, because I'm guessing he will have even stronger reactions than I will. I'm aware of the body issues thing, too, and I'm really going to have to work on my food issues if I'm going to be able to raise kids. I want to be able to set a reasonable example for them, male or female.

I actually might just buy the Ariel Levy book. You can get it on Amazon for $10.50, and that's about what it would cost for you to ship it to me and me to ship it back.

i think we could probably ship it back and forth for a lot less than $10.50. the book is barely over 200 pages and weighs less than a pound. i have to go to the post office several times a week anyways to check my p.o. box. it'd be no problem for me to ship it to you.

But, you know, I wore cropped tops and belly chains and miniskirts. Usually not all at the same time, though -- I managed to look decent, I think.

when i worked at Hot Topic, i got to see a lot of 12-14 year old girls who dressed in ways i never would have imagined dressing at that age. girls wearing crop tops w/belly chains AND (my personal fave) the top of a thong peeking out the back of their ultra-low-rise jeans. these girls also were more than clear in their offers of wanting to date and/or service the full-time-assistant-manager, James. though James was indeed a hottie he was 25 and these girls were 15-years-old max. James once told them how old he was and they were like, "we don't care. we like older men!" ack!

I just am not sure how I'll handle that situation -- and how Segev and I will deal with that situation together, because I'm guessing he will have even stronger reactions

Tom is also kind of freaked about the idea of having a daughter. he says he'll need to buy more guns if we have a girl and that he'll have to teach her all his super-secret-self-defense-kill-you-with-one-strike moves.